Sandra Yao: From China with love for Kenya

New Business Development, which Sandra handles is essentially, Chinese business. Her job is to drive Chinese business and growth for National Bank.

Also on her plate, is to handle the digital transformation of the bank. She comes from a 10-year telecommunication background, her last posting being at Orange Telcom Kenya where she headed Orange Money.

We meet at Nairobi Serena’s Bambara lounge (love this lounge, it’s quiet and make great dawas).

You have lovely eyes!

Of course I do! (Laughs).

No really, I have seen Chinese eyes, but yours sort of have a more unique slant…

I have special Chinese eyes.

No kidding.

(Chuckles) I’m serious. They are called “Dan Teng” [writes it on my notebook]. They are rare Chinese eyes, not found on many of us. My siblings or parents don’t have it. It’s only me.

What does your name Hua Yao mean?

Yao is my family name. Hua means China. It’s a very powerful name. It’s a name for a boy, that’s what everyone says.

Why did they call you a boy’s name?

I don’t know, my dad believed in me a lot I guess. I have a brother though.

Tell me, why would you leave Orange which is perceived to be funky and move to a government bank that ‘s been considered “old people’s bank”?

I must give it to the former MD of National Bank (Munir Ahmed) who had a transformation agenda of five years. He wanted to turn around the bank. In the process, he found me.

Of course I declined the offer many times because well, I had never heard of nor seen a National Bank and I had been in Kenya for 10 years!

Wow!

So when he came, I was like what? National Bank what? What do you guys do? So he told me “this is why I need you, because people like you don’t see or hear about us.”

I didn’t think about it too seriously at that time because I was then driving Orange Money. Later, things happened at Orange and so I made the decision to take up Munir’s offer.

Of course they threw a good package at you, didn’t they?

Well, the pay cheque wasn’t that good (laughs), but it was purely the transformational agenda that I was attracted to. I felt that as a young professional, I had a chance here to make change, to make an impact.

I knew it would feel good later in life, to say, “you see that bank, the turn around, I was part of that team.” That’s what was sold to me. And also because Munir was giving me the leeway to drive the digital innovation agenda. I told him, “you want Chinese business only, I won’t do it. It’s too easy for me.”

So here you are coming from Orange with these new digital ideas. Did you run into a culture shock when you arrived at National Bank?

Well, initially when I just joined, I was very determined, very excited. I was on a high. I was like “oh my God, there’s so much we can do here.” Then, reality check. You meet the culture that’s been there for years.

And worse, I’m not a banker. I come from a different field. Aligning every department to the digital agenda has had its challenges.

Moving from telecom, after 10 years and getting into banking, was a huge switch...

It was. And that’s why initially I said no. I think when the former MD tried to convince me, he really wanted the Chinese business and he couldn’t find anyone better than me in this market.

So he told me, “I’ll coach you, I’ll teach you, banking is easy, it’s just numbers; bring deposit, we give out loan, very simple.” He made it sound very simple.

When I came on board, two, three weeks later, I knew my way around. When people see my face, they trust me, they give me their money. It’s easy. (Laughs).

You think your face is trustworthy?

Yes! When it comes to the Chinese, my clients. But I don’t just bank anyone. I choose my customers. I choose quality customers. Those that I think are also trustworthy, and not going to give me trouble, like doing money laundering or bad loans.

Just how big is the Chinese business, can you give me figures?

I don’t know if they want to talk about that because there is a lot of competition in the banking sector for Chinese, so, that one could be difficult.

But we have established a solid customer base. I have established a network. My rule is that I don’t bank just anyone.

(Mheshimiwa Kalonzo Musyoka and his entourage burst into the lounge from the anti- IEBC demonstrations. It gets noisy. We move tables)

Sorry, you were telling me about Chinese business…

Yes, Chinese business is doing very well. We’ve introduced Chinese cash to facilitate our customers travelling to China, making their trip easier. I’ve introduced UniPay which we’re about to launch.

Basically we have tapped into all the relevant avenues to tap into that business. We are the only department in business that doesn’t have any non-performing loans because we don’t lend. There are a lot of deposits coming in from the Chinese side.

So you came here into the country even before the Chinese “discovered” Kenya. What brought you here 10 years ago?

Personal reasons.

Okay….

I was married to a Kenyan.

So you met in China and moved here?

Yes.

You said “was”, you’re no longer married?

No.

But you stayed on after the marriage...

I love Kenya. It’s a fantastic place to live. If you compare all the indicators when it comes to environment, the weather is fantastic. People generally are nice, more receptive than other places.

My first job was here. All my friends are here. I can’t imagine living anywhere else. This is home.

What do your friends back at home think? Your childhood friends...

Initially, they thought I was crazy, (laughs) why Kenya? Why Africa, generally? Because the perception is that Africa represents war, disaster, disease.

I sent them photos telling them Kenya is beautiful, The Mara is amazing, come before the animals disappear. So as time goes by, a lot of Chinese are writing a lot of positive stuff about Kenya.

My friends want to come visit. They want to go to Maasai Mara. They want to go to Mt. Kilimanjaro next door.

What’s the difference between the Chinese client who banks compared to the Kenyan client?

I don’t really know what Kenyans like in regards to corporate individual banking, but if you tell me on the digital side, maybe I can tell you more. I think Kenyans are very special.

Of course. Michael Joseph prophesied that!

We have made banking very easy by introducing internet banking, mobile banking, agency banking, all these channels available for Kenyans, but Kenyans are stuck with M-Pesa.

Banks haven’t quite figured out how to get these Kenyans. But I think Kenyans want to be heard. I want to come to the bank, tell you about my problem, you hear me and sort me out.

And you trust me because I trusted you with my money. But many banks want to push a certain calibre out, telling them to bank with the mobile.

Has the Chase Bank debacle affected Chinese banking?

Affected, yes, I would say, on the perception of banking in Kenya. But they loved Chase Bank, because of their customer service.

So we learnt that from Chase at least for Chinese banking and that’s what we give to our customers. When you come to bank with me, I’ll keep you comfortable as everything is done for you.

Green tea I suppose?

Any tea you want.

What are your passions outside of this?

A lot of things are not right here. I like to contribute to that using my influence, my resources and my networks to create a powerful impact on the community.

I believe there is a huge gap between the perception the locals have of the Chinese, and what the Chinese do here, so I would like to bridge that gap by showing them how to be involved in CSI projects on a consistent basis.

What do you think the Kenyan perception is of the Chinese?

From what I know, Kenyans think the Chinese came here to make money and take their jobs and they really don’t care about them. Some even say the Chinese are a little bit racist. But they have created jobs.

Locals are getting job opportunities with every building you see going up. However, the Chinese could be a little better when it comes to communicating with their employees and partners.

Sometimes when they talk, people tend to think they are shouting when they are just expressing themselves and Kenyans don’t take that lightly.

What do you think is an untrue perception Chinese have of Kenyans, seeing as you’ve been here for many years?

Chinese think, in general, that Kenyans are lazy and not very loyal, and not very smart. This is not true. In fact, it is the opposite. Kenyans are very smart, but they will show you that they are not when you think they are not. And Kenyans are very hardworking. They build companies, look at Safaricom!

How do you let your hair down?

I don’t have hair! (Laughs) Taking care of my daughter. She’s nine.

Do you write your SMSs in English or Chinese?
English.

Are you a good mother?

I am an amazing mother. (Laughs) I should have brought you the sticker my daughter gave me on Mother’s Day: Best Mom Ever. She thinks I’m the coolest.